Obsolete

With a rotten and statistically corrupt voting system, landslides which give an incoming party an inflated Commons majority are inevitable when the public mood turns against a stale government in office.

One of the main charges against 'New Labour' is that they promised to remedy this and other constitutional defects such as Lords reform, but either failed to do so or botched [being natural botchers].

Many more voters than those who think of themselves as 'Left' had a euphoric moment in May 1997. The Tories were tired, sleazy and corrupt, and it was time for a change. 'New Labour' had the political ball at its feet, and almost immediately started to fumble it as those of us who have never been Labour supporters, but are broadly sympathetic to a progressive social agenda, rightly anticipated it would do.

Now, Labour is tired, sleazy and corrupt, and the Tories, if they play their cards right, will have the political ball at their feet after the next election. Even if you instinctively don't like Conservatives or favour all their policies, the most sensible thing all liberal-minded folk can do during the next couple of years and afterwards is to concentrate upon encouraging them towards policies which will be good for - or at least not harmful to - the country, instead of indulging in futile breast-beating of the "what's gone wrong?" kind, as it all too obvious what has gone wrong with the Labour government: first, the vanity and hubris of Blair, second, the bumbling incompetence of Brown, and above all the supine "me-tooism" of the hordes fo useless back-benchers who are overdue to be swept away into the oblivion where they rightly belong.

Ah, I see, windbagging is when you oppose 42 days but think that Davis is an egocentric right-wing reactionary, homophobe who favours introducing the death penalty and 28 day detention without charge.

Well, you choose your heroes if you wish, personally I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire. But make sure you choose them well, because despite what you say about me being 'bitterly partisan' I detest much of what the Labour government has done over the last decade. But when we are in our 10th year of the conservative regime you crave, the poorest sections of our society will be feeling the sharp end of it, but you will be able to maintain your smug smile.

it reminds me of those student wankers who in 1979 urged people to vote Tory because "things couldn't get any worse under Thatcher'.

Fine fucking strategy that turned out to be.

Bob, much as I admire and respect you, I think you've chosen the wrong side this time.

Davis's support for capital punishment has always been irrelevant. It's never going to be introduced in this country, and while I disagree with him on 28 days (I think 14 days is perfectly adequate) anything less would have resulted in the police and Labour hounding him even more so than they did during the campaign.

Was Davis ego-centric? Quite possibly, yes. Does it sometimes require an act of egotism to put a message across? Again, quite possibly. What he's done is reinvigorate a vital part of our body politic which has increasingly been either ignored or sneered at. Regardless of what his resignation actually achieved, he's put civil liberties and the casual dilution of freedom firmly back on the map. Isn't that something worth supporting?

I do of course realise you've opposed much of what New Labour has done. It is however your complete allegiance to the party, whatever it does, even if you don't support it, that which is behind the mocking of what Davis did. This was beyond party politics, or it should have been.

The reason why I and so many others are fed up with Labour is as I wrote, not just one thing, but the steady culmination of so many different policies. You can only put up with so much; I hold no illusions that the Conservatives will be worse, but if Labour gets it act together, gets rid of the dead wood which is so weighing it down and reconnects with its mission and core, then needn't be ten years in the wilderness but four or five at the most. Cameron's sheen cannot possibly last, and another Blair clone is not what we either want or desperately need. Labour is tired, but it can still rebuild.

Labour is tired, it can still rebuild.

Well, i doubt it. The essence of the Party is its links with the working class through the trade union movement. No other Party has that sort of link, and that is the reason for staying with the Party.

I didn't oppose Davis because he was a Tory, although that's good enough reason. If Jeremy Corbyn or Lynne Jones, who I admire immensely, had pulled the same stunt, I would have said exactly the same. It hasn't opened up the debate, it hasn't even persuaded the voters in his own constituency to come out and give him a vote of confidence. If anything it will have entrenched the Labour waverers behind 42 days - hence Lord Winston on any questions last night who was previously opposed but has been persuaded of the merits of 42 days.

Davis stunt has certainly made it more difficult for those of us arguing against 42 days within the party.

"If anything it will have entrenched the Labour waverers behind 42 days - hence Lord Winston on any questions last night who was previously opposed but has been persuaded of the merits of 42 days."

This proves Septicisle's point: Labour people aren't supporting it because they think it's right, they support it as a high-profile Tory is opposed to it.

Anyway, the other bits (being pro-death penalty, anti-gay, etc) show how wrong Labour are as they've made a hang 'em 'n' flog 'em politician take a stand against it.

...or how wrong you are to give succor to a hang 'em and flog 'em politician.

Circular argument.